Nature of the Beast

I'm not going to comment on the viability of the card too much, (other then to say that in 4 player especially 1 clue isn't really that significant because you're at best removing one of 4 clues from a location which isn't that high impact) but I've seen a couple comments saying that this card lets you filter the encounter deck. This isn't really true. Sure, if you draw a problematic encounter then you can bin it and not have to worry about one copy of it for the encounter shuffle. But you're also fairly likely to not find any particularly bad encounters and end up removing two of them that would have been relatively easy for your team to deal with and cause you to draw the harder ones sooner. You're not actually filtering your draws, because these are cards that you wouldn't have drawn anyway. It's similar to how discarding cards from your deck doesn't substantially effect your draws aside from having to take a horror from the reshuffle earlier as it means that cards you would have drawn in the middle of the scenario are drawn earlier, and later on in the scenario you'll be drawing cards you otherwise wouldn't have if you didn't discard the cards.

In the end, you're about as likely to discard difficult encounters as you are to cause your team to draw them earlier and more often. Not saying the card is bad or anything, just that "improving your encounter draws" isn't a thing this card really does as it is about as likely to make them worse.

Sylvee · 103
I think you're overgeneralizing the mill lesson, and this card does actually improve encounter draws like people say it does. I'd need to do substantial math to prove the general point, but if nothing else, in a three or four player game, going through the entire encounter deck is in many situations inevitable. There are only a few ways to avoid resolving, say, Ancient Evils: either you cancel it, you discard it (and this is the only player card that does that), or you get lucky and the scenario ends or shuffles the encounter discard pile into the encounter deck before you see it. Nature of the Beast doesn't make the third more likely, of course, but it does make the second possible at all. Meaning that if the scenario was in fact long enough to draw through the encounter deck anyway, you've turned a guaranteed draw of whatever card you're worried about into a possible draw of it, which is in fact less likely. — Thatwasademo · 58
Suppose you were going to draw through the encounter deck exactly once during a scenario; that's exactly 3 Ancient Evils (or whatever card you most want to avoid). Now suppose you resolve Nature of the Beast once during that scenario; you get to discard an Ancient Evils if you see it, but now you're 3 cards deeper into the encounter deck so, before the game ends, you will draw the top 3 cards of a reshuffled encounter deck — which are just as likely to contain an Ancient Evils as the 3 cards you revealed before. Nature of the Beast did not change the expected number of Ancient Evils you drew, it just increased the variance — which is probably a bad thing. — Spritz · 69
There are ways to target bad encounter cards: using Nature of the Beast with Katja Eastbank and Scrying, for example. And, like player-deck-discarding effects, Nature of the Beast gives you potentially useful *information* about future encounter draws. But I am fairly confident that Sylvee is right and Nature of the Beast on its own does not improve encounter draws. — Spritz · 69
But if you can avoid drawing ancient evil now, this get you enough time to finish before the next was drawn. In a thinned encounter deck the chance of drawing a specific card might also be higher then in a fresh encounter deck. Nature of the bead is not reliable without scying etc but it can change some odds — Tharzax · 1
@Tharzaz this card does impact the odds of drawing certain cards after you play it similar to how resolving the encounter part of the mythos phase impacts odds. And if you have tools that both let you see what the next 3 cards of the mythos phase are as well as a way to consistently trigger this when you got a batch you want to discard, (as Spritz mentions you could do this with Katja and Scrying) you could theoretically use this card to improve your draws. But absent those things, this card is on average about as likely to cause you to discard an Ancient Evils as it is to cause you to draw all of them a turn sooner and potentially draw one more. Without information of what's on the top of the encounter deck and the ability to trigger this card when it's something bad, it's random chance what you hit with it and over the course of enough games will end up improving your draws as much as it worsens it. — Sylvee · 103
It took me a little while to understand the argument but now I see it: we all focus on the chance it has to discard 1 (or 2) annoying encounter cards, without seeing that it can also have us discard 2 non-threatening cards, bringing us closer to the cards we actually want to avoid. — Valentin1331 · 73674
Yes on its own this card is not really good since you don't since it's effect resolves after drawing and you can't time it. Even the effect is mediocre. You need additional card to get good combos. Like Katja, scying or a ward of protection to fish and prevent a bad encounter like ancient evil. — Tharzax · 1
The Final Act

In my opinion, this card shows a problem Fantasy Flight Games has with some of their games, namely Arkham Horror and The Lord of the Rings. In both games, a fairly frequent occurrence is scenarios where there's a binary state; either the players are in state A, or they're in state B. For Dim Carcosa, that binary state is "No sanity remaining;" either you have sanity remaining, or you don't. This in and of itself is not a problem, but the way FFG makes the scenario use the state is.

In any state-based scenario, there are a few questions to consider;

  1. Which state will the players want to be in, absent any non-act or agenda features?
  2. Which state is easier to stay in and how much effort is required to change states?
  3. Do the designers want to incentivize or discourage being in either of the states?

For Dim Carcosa, the answers are relatively simple:

  1. All the players' experience will incentivize them to make sure they have sanity remaining.
  2. It is easier to have no sanity remaining, and while it's easy to go from sanity to no sanity, it's very hard to do the reverse without cards dedicated to the task.
  3. Not known for certain, but my guess is that they wanted to discourage having no sanity remaining, in order to make use of the design space the mechanic of sanity in Carcosa opened up, to emphasize the dangers of Carcosa, and to prevent infinite sanity from trivializing the game.

These answers help us to better understand the design of a lot of the cards in the scenario; Dismal Curse helps turn the horror on players into damage, Realm of Madness tears the player's board state to shreds if they have no remaining sanity, and The Final Act serves as 2 Ancient Evils and another encounter card if they have no remaining sanity. All of these serve the goal of discouraging players from running out of sanity, and do so admirably.

What's done less admirably in the scenario, in my opinion, is discouraging players from keeping their sanity. State B is heavily punished, but State A feels barely touched, and the scenario honestly feels like it doesn't push losing your sanity (Going from State A to State B) on you too heavily, the way The Forgotten Age might push the Poisoned weakness, for example. Yes, there's Rotting Remains and The Yellow Sign, but even on top of the starting horror you take, it feels like being pushed over the boundary between the two states is gradual, honestly downright avoidable at times.

Once you are over that line, though, suddenly you have to deal with double Ancient Evils (with surge), a 3-of 5 test in the encounter deck, the potential to be flat out killed before you have the chance to react, and a chaos bag that, on Normal, went from five -2 tokens to four -4s. Add in Hastur's nightmarish mutation of the chaos bag, and you've gone from potential victory to almost-certain defeat. Your friends who still have sanity, meanwhile, are still able to traverse the land of the King, possibly without abnormal threat if they're able to shrug off The Yellow Sign and Rotting Remains.

This is the problem FFG has with binary-state scenarios: they make one state too punishing without including enough that forces the player into that state. You live or die based on which state you're in, and it's surprisingly hard for the game to push you into one.

Fortunately, this is somewhat easily fixable; instead of including so many cards that punish players for being in "the bad state," include a mixture of cards that alternate between punishing the players for being in "the bad state" and pushing the players towards that state, designing an encounter deck that not only tries to keep players down but also has methods of getting them there in the first place. For Dim Carcosa, that might have meant making Dismal Curse push the players towards losing their sanity instead of punishing them for not having any, or making Hastur's frankly game-ending token manipulation apply if you have sanity remaining, incentivizing you to fall deeper under the King's sway. The twin suns of Carcosa might be searing madness into the investigator's minds (personally, I think a lot of the visuals from this cycle would actually look beautiful in real life), but that doesn't mean the designers don't have the tools of reason to help them keep that madness from plaguing their players as well.

I... don't think the designers intended you to want to lose all your sanity just because the scenario allows you to. My headcanon is that rather than defeating you instantly, like in all other scenarios, you get to wallow in dread for a few rounds before being overwhelmed by the intentionally unfair punishments you get for being insane in Carcosa. — Hylianpuffball · 29
Sorry, that wasn't what I was trying to say; what I was trying to say was that the developers, in an attempt to make use of the design space opened up by Sanity in Carcosa, tried to design Dim Carcosa around that mechanic, and thus tried to include methods of forcing players (The Yellow Sign, one of my most feared treacheries) into that state. Whether the players wanted to lose their sanity or not was immaterial to the designers; the designers themselves wanted to include cards that played around with the mechanic of running out of sanity. Does that make any more sense, or am I just making things even less clear? — NightgauntTaxiService · 430
I just see too many arguments at once and it's unclear what your conclusion is. The deck already has a "mixture of cards that alternate" between causing and punishing insanity, you even mention some of them. Players don't need additional incentive to stay in State A (sane), that's a normal part of the game, and there are many warnings that going insane causes extra trouble here. I don't believe it's "surprisingly hard" to go insane in Carcosa, any more than it's hard to be defeated in most other scenarios. If you don't actively fight it, it can happen really easily. — Hylianpuffball · 29
If the core argument is "Carcosa makes going insane a fun threat, but I didn't actually get to go insane", then sure, balancing difficulty is tough, but I don't think there's a fundamental problem with scenario design here. — Hylianpuffball · 29
My conclusion is that FFG included too few effects that actively push the players towards insanity while including too many that punish them for having no remaining sanity, meaning that the scenario is either surprisingly easy if you manage to keep your sanity or cripplingly hard if you don't. A parallel I just thought of is Beyond the Veil from Dunwich; if you don't draw it, the payoff from the "discard from your deck" mechanic is meager, if you do, it's game-ending. In that case, it's a problem of too many cards pushing you into State B (running out of deck) and not enough punishing the players for being in State B. — NightgauntTaxiService · 430
I agree with many of your thoughts on the Dim Carcosa scenario, but I'm not sure that I see this as a recurring issue. In the first and second-to-last paragraph you mention this as a repeat problem, do you have further examples of scenarios that illustrate this binary state issue? If it's just Dim Carcosa then it's more likely that they didn't get it quite right on this scenario (as Hylianpuffball mentions, balance is difficult) rather than an ongoing design issue. — Pseudo Nymh · 61
My experience with Arkham is fairly limited, I just have the Core campaign and Carcosa. However, in the Lord of the Rings the Living Card Game, The Drowned Ruins and The Passing of the Grey Company are prime examples of this problem. — NightgauntTaxiService · 430
It depends which version of Hastur you face... (spoilers) the one that deals horror to everyone at once, everywhere, can push you towards insanity quite fast. — DrOGM · 25
NightgauntTaxiService has a point here. When designing a game, you usually want you game elements have an actual effect in the game. YES, the threat of Beyond the Veil or other cards mentioned triggering is a psychological effect, which is important nonetheless, but the card DOES NOTHING until it triggers. That would be my summary of the core argument here. — AlderSign · 309
Sort of, AlderSign; the problem with cards like The Final Act is that they do nothing while the players are in State A (have sanity), the state which they will most likely try to stay in, but devastating the players if they're in State B (no sanity), a state which the game heavily penalizes the players for being in. Basically, if the players stay in State A, the majority of the card effects in the scenario aren't a problem, but the instant they enter State B, every encounter card gets ten times worse. The game is too easy in State A and too punishing in State B, partially because, again, the majority of encounter cards are designed to get worse for the players when they're in State B. — NightgauntTaxiService · 430
Alice Luxley

Now that Scarlet Keys has been released, Alice has greatly increased in utility.

Her biggest shortcoming, aside from cost, is that discovering clues generally provokes attacks from enemies, pigeonholing her as an expensive supplemental damage asset to an evasion/investigation build in the wrong color.

With Keys, however, we have to contend with Concealed cards. Concealed cards normally eat a fight/evade/investigate action to reveal, but Alice effectively doubles your action economy by providing a testless reveal once per round after gaining a clue. Roland, Joe, Rex and Vincent can combine with Research Notes and the new clue-dropping cards to have free reveals on tap.

CombStranger · 269
I'm not sure this is right. The Scarlet Keys rules says Concealed mini-cards can be attacked or evaded "as if they were an enemy at your location", it doesn't say treat them as enemies at your location in any other respect. In fact , it goes out of its way to say "Concealed Minicards are not enemies" so I think it has to be an effect that specifically attacks , evades or investigates. Effects that just deal damage, exhaust enemies or discover clues aren't enough. Alice's damage isn't an attack so I don't think she can be used for reveals. Gosh, this situation is like three rules nightmares in one tho, concealed, distinctions between the names of actions and their effects and "as if" for good measure. I'm not sure I have all that right myself.. — bee123 · 31
@bee123 actually, the Concealed rules specify Dynamite Blast as an example that works, which like Alice deals damage to an enemy at location — Nenananas · 258
I'm still not super convinced ... The rules don't actually specify Dynamite Blast by name , they just allude to its effect in the process of saying you can't reveal multiple cards off the same effect. But that doesn't seem to me to mean Dynamite Blast is an attack now, it means attacks that work like D-Blast , eg MK1 grenades, work as the example shows. . And again, I can't see how you get round the problem that the concealed mini-card isn't an enemy at your location and can't be dealt damage. How do cards that "damage an enemy at your location" deal it damage? — bee123 · 31
Like, my reading is the rules say attack/evade/investigate . There are lots of effects that deal damage without attacking and a few ways to attack without dealing damage. So, at least to me, there seems to be a clear distinction there.. — bee123 · 31
On page 4 it says "An investigator may also use a card effect that automatically evades an enemy, deals damage to an enemy, or discovers a clue at a location in order to instead expose a concealed mini-card." You're right it doesn't mention Dynamite Blast in the rules, I got it confused with this paragraph that's also on page 4: "an effect that deals 3 damage to each enemy at a location does not expose all concealed mini-cards at that location; only one." — Nenananas · 258
Huh, yeah sorry you're right . Shows just painstakingly carefully u have to read the rules sometimes.. — bee123 · 31
Don't be sorry. The Concealed keyword is one of the more complicated mechanics in Arkham. I'm still not convinced if something that discovers 2 clues can reveal one Concealed and find one clue, and my group still hasn't come to an agreement on whether you can use an auto-clue discover to reveal a Concealed if there are no clues to discover. — Nenananas · 258
I love the thematic nature of Detective Luxley tracking down the concealed enemies. — arkhamgrad · 1
Blur

For Rogues this card is Eon Chart but the action has to be an evade, and in exchange you get +1 to the test (helpful for succeed by X cards) and it takes up an arcane slot instead of an Accessory. For Rogues that plan on doing a bit of evading, (and that's a lot of them) this card IMO is actually just better than Eon Chart (1) because it gives you a boost and it uses a MUCH less contested slot. The evade restriction isn't even that bad, because usually turns where you have to evade are ones where you want an extra action anyway. IMO a sleeper hit card from Edge, at least for Rogues.

Sylvee · 103
And the accessory slot is already probably one of the most contested for Rogues, when the Arcane Slot is often only used by Haste/Double, Double. I use this card more and more in rogues, especially with Dirty Fighting! — Valentin1331 · 73674